Patents Amendment Bill — Committee of the whole House
· Full day report
Committee of the whole House Part 2 New transitional provisions for divisional applications filed after commencement CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Members, we come now to Part 2. This is the debate on clause 7, “New transitional provisions for divisional applications filed after commencement”. The question is that Part 2 stand part. Hon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour—Dunedin) (20:56): Mr Chair, thank you. This is a very short part. Again, I’m interested in the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs explaining the legal mechanism—what these words in the bill are doing. I’m going to page 3 of the explanatory note, it’s talking about transitional provisions for these divisional applications that will be filed after this bill comes into force but are dated before 13 September 2014. These divisional applications continue to be treated as patent applications made under that old 1953 Act, with some exceptions; you can see what the exceptions are in the drafting. The grounds for opposing the grant of a patent and the procedure the commissioner must follow if a grant is opposed to it—so my question here is: what is the point, here, of allowing these to still be treated as if they were under the…
Read full Hansard debate
Committee of the whole House
Part 2 New transitional provisions for divisional applications filed after commencement
CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Members, we come now to Part 2. This is the debate on clause 7, “New transitional provisions for divisional applications filed after commencement”. The question is that Part 2 stand part.
Hon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour—Dunedin) (20:56): Mr Chair, thank you. This is a very short part. Again, I’m interested in the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs explaining the legal mechanism—what these words in the bill are doing. I’m going to page 3 of the explanatory note, it’s talking about transitional provisions for these divisional applications that will be filed after this bill comes into force but are dated before 13 September 2014. These divisional applications continue to be treated as patent applications made under that old 1953 Act, with some exceptions; you can see what the exceptions are in the drafting. The grounds for opposing the grant of a patent and the procedure the commissioner must follow if a grant is opposed to it—so my question here is: what is the point, here, of allowing these to still be treated as if they were under the 1953 Act? Are all the bits and pieces that follow, that are in the drafting, strong enough to make it a legal fiction that it is under the 1953 Act, really it’s being treated as if it’s under the 2013, Act—and is that the mechanism here; is that what’s happening?
CUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour—Ikaroa-Rāwhiti) (20:57): Thank you, Mr Chair, and tēnei anō te mihi ki te Minita e noho ana i tēnei pō [I acknowledge once again the Minister, here in this session tonight].
In my contribution earlier, I talked about mātauranga Māori. I want to ask how in these transitions, applications which include mātauranga Māori, Māori intellectual property, will be managed—the transition of these? Has the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, or anyone, consulted with iwi or Māori business or Māori research institutes about how the impacts of these transitional changes will be managed; if so, who, and what concerns were raised, and how will those be managed?
Hon CAMERON BREWER (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs) (20:58): I will talk to my officials about the level of consultation that the member raises. This Part 2 is very much the operative part of the bill.
The Hon Rachel Brooking was asking these as she read them out: “Are they strong enough?” The short answer is yes. The explanatory note, as she alluded to for Part 2, page 3, takes the reader through the new transitional provisions for divisional applications filed after commencement. The advice that I have here for the new transitional provisions for the 1953 divisional applications after commencement are replicated in the official advice I have. What she has, I have.
CUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour—Ikaroa-Rāwhiti) (20:59): Exactly. I’ve asked a very specific question. Mātauranga Māori is going to be a major implication in this. We know that, for example, commercially, it’s quite difficult sometimes to quantify the commercial value, but it’s definitely going to be an issue when we’re considering patents. I’ve asked very specifically how that will be managed in this transition phase.
Carl Bates: Mr Chair.
Hon Member: Mr Chair.
CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Cushla Tangaere-Manuel.
CUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL: Mr Chair, I would like an answer to that question, and I don’t either member standing up opposite can answer it.
Hon CAMERON BREWER (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs) (21:00): Oh, I’d back both of them, but I am seeking some advice to the member. If it’s not given within this time, the officials will no doubt be available for a few minutes at the conclusion of this to give that advice, but we are seeking it.
Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central) (21:00): The place for advice to be put on the record, on Hansard, is here, and so if the officials have advice around Cushla Tangaere-Manuel’s question around mātauranga Māori, this is the place to do it. It’s a really important question and one that hasn’t come up a lot in this debate. Now, I can accept, and certainly for me, it’s not a question that I’d be able to answer off the cuff, and I appreciate the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs needs to take advice on this, but in this situation, I’m very happy to pause for officials to provide that advice—but’s it’s not appropriate for us to conclude this debate whilst officials are preparing advice to give to the Minister so that he can stand up in the House of Representatives and give an appropriate and fulsome answer on an important question. If he didn’t understand that question, or if officials need further detail of that question, I’m sure my colleague will be more than happy to assist.
CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Likewise, if the Minister did want to take advice, we can—or they can give an answer to satisfy the committee.
Hon CAMERON BREWER (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs) (21:02): I can sense we’re drawing to an end here, possibly, on Part 2, because it is the operative part of the bill, and the advice that the members have sought is the advice that I have and that they have in the five-page bill, and so that’s what it’s worth. But I suppose I’d ask the member to just reiterate the advice she’s seeking and then let’s get the official response and then let’s get it on the record.
CUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour—Ikaroa-Rāwhiti) (21:02): Happily, Mr Chair. As the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs has acknowledged, this is the operational part of the bill. I’m asking specifically: mātauranga Māori, when it comes to patents, especially as we encourage innovation and the commercialisation and the risks around that of mātauranga Māori and protecting that, is going to be a key part of operationalising this bill. What I’m seeking to understand is: what advice have they got about managing that? Who have they spoken to? What, if any concerns—
Carl Bates: Out of scope.
Dr Hamish Campbell: This is closing a loophole.
CUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL: I love how you guys are interjecting when the Minister’s still seeking advice on this. You guys are not helping. The Minister’s paying respect to this very important issue and so interjections are not appropriate because otherwise you’d be in that seat. What I’m asking is what advice has been sought, from whom, what solutions or issues have they raised, and how will mātauranga Māori be protected as we transition into operationalising this bill?
CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): As a way through this impasse, Minister, if you would like to seek advice, or if there is none available, state that for the record now. I think that will be quite important given this is what will allow us to move on from here.
Hon CAMERON BREWER (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs) (21:03): Thank you, Mr Chair. I’ll answer the question as best as officials can give it to me. I was not part of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee process, but that may have been canvassed in the process. It may have been canvassed by the Labour Government in Cabinet committee in 2020, so I’m sure that it’s been traversed even in the broader sense, but let me see if we’ve got some advice ready to go. I’ll make sure I can read it first and then hopefully we can move on.
[Confers with officials] It’s not patentable? OK. Mātauranga is not patentable, but the direct consultation has not happened in the scope of this bill.
CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Sorry, I heard that—sorry, we’ll need to—
Hon CAMERON BREWER: Sorry, wasn’t I microphoned? What the member was asking for—and apologies for my pronunciation—mātauranga Māori is not patentable is the advice I’m getting. It is not an invention. It would be good to be able to read this writing, but the advice is that it’s well outside the scope, and the consultation that she is asking for has not happened at the level that she has requested.
MILES ANDERSON (National—Waitaki) (21:05): I move, That debate on this question now close.
Motion agreed to.
CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Arena Williams’ tabled amendment to clause 7, new section 258A(1)(a), inserting “as applicable”, is out of order as being of no legislative effect.
The question is that Arena Williams’ tabled amendment to clause 7, new section 258A(1)(b), replacing “on or after” with “after”, be agreed to.
Amendment not agreed to.
CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): The question is that Arena Williams’ tabled amendment to clause 7, new section 258A(1)(c), replacing “before 13 September 2014” with “before the commencement of the Patents Act 2013”, be agreed to.
Amendment not agreed to.
CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): The question is that Arena Williams’ tabled amendment to clause 7, inserting new section 258A(1)(d) reading “The parent application remains pending.” be agreed to.
Amendment not agreed to.
CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Arena Williams’ five tabled amendments to clause 7, new section 258A(4) are out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation.
Part 2 agreed to.